Trouble getting my Yamaha SY77 to read sysex from an MD TG77 layout

Question

I downloaded the fantastic looking new user-created layout for the Yamaha TG77 (a rack version of the SY77 synth). The MIDI messages for the rack and keyboard version of the synth should be the same, so I figure the SY77 should work as well. I have all MIDI cables connected correctly. I have tried different MIDI channels on the SY77 for receive. I have tried different System ID settings and have enabled and disabled Bulk Protect in System Settings on the SY77. I enter voice edit mode on the Sy77 and when I change parameters, they register on the MD editor layout nicely. However, no changes I make on the MD layout are registered on the synth itself. I imagine there is a simple setting somewhere I am missing.

Some things I tried this morning:

I plugged my ipad MIDI out into my Mac and used a MIDI monitor app on the Mac to make sure my ipad and MIDI Designer were sending MIDI on the MIDI out from the ipad interface...all good. Sysex strings are being received from the ipad and look legitimate. I did notice that the manufacturer ID being sent from the TG77 design in MD was a manufacturer ID labeled as "Oberheim." I thought perhaps changing the System ID on my SY77 from "1" to "all" may help, but no go there. Still there is no data being changed on the synth from the ipad, even though it is sending Sysex data. I tried different midi channels again to no avail. I have the SY77 in Voice Edit mode. Again, I am able to send data from the SY77 TO the ipad and the controls in the layout change to reflect the values chosen in the editor, but not the other way around. I believe it is either some setting I am missing on the SY77 or something in the sysex string that the SY77 doesn't like coming from the MD layout. It's got to be something simple. I have tried different config settings in MIDI including slowing down the MIDI data stream in the Config page of MD. No luck yet! Anyone have any ideas?

Comments

If this is useful, here is a string that is sent from the layout:

SysEx        Oberheim 10 bytes    F0 10 34 46 00 00 17 00 01 F7

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Using the Log window in Midi Designer, I am able to see that sysex strings sent from the TG77 panel on the ipad are identical to the ones sent FROM the SY77 that MD registers in the Log Window. Hmmm...the search continues

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I just booted up my laptop that I was using to edit the SY77 which is running Sound Diver. Without any changes to the SY77, I am fully able to edit patches on the SY77 using Sound Diver. The Sysex strings look the same there as well. Perhaps there is something in MIDI Desinger's output settings that I am missing? I'm SO close! haha

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This sounds really strange indeed! I agree that is must be something in the MIDI routing or probably some unwanted/unexpected sysex filtering somewhere? For example Cubase (which I use) has an option to filter sysex as a general rule, so this filter must be deactivated. You could check if there is something like that in your software. Do you have another option to route the MIDI to the SY, on another PC or using another software? Or is there any config software for your MIDI interface? Just to check if there is any filtering on individual channels going on in the interface.
Don´t know if it helps, but my set-up loks like this:

- iPad to iMac using MusicIO and the cable connection
- MIDI into Cubase using the MusicIO plug-in
- from Cubase to the TG via MIDI interface (an old AMT8)

in Cubase I used 2 tracks, one being routed to the iPad, the other one to the TG, both of them using signals from all inputs. Then I just needed to switch between the tracks whenever I wanted to send from iPad to TG or vice versa.
The channel setting in my TG looks like this:
- Voice Receive Channel: omni
- Note on/off: all
- Device Number: 1
- Bulk Protect: on
So even the Bulk Protect doesn't stop the single parameter changes, only complete memory bulks.
Cross my fingers that you get it to work!

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Thanks for trying to help :-) I. am using the ipad directly into the SY77. I am able to edit patches on the SY77 from a PC laptop running SoundDiver without any settings changes on the SY. Let me see if switching to OMNI does anything. I have tried MIDI Channel 1 and 4(the usual channel in my set up). It's weird that the sysex string sent FROM my SY77 to the ipad is actually the same as the one that the same controls send from the TG layout. Crazy right? If I try the LEARN function for one of the layout controls and change the correct parameter on the SY77, the sysex string looks different, though. I don't know enough about sysex strings yet to know if there are just extra bits present or something.

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Ok I tried a different USB interface using the camera connection kit for the ipad and get the same result. Editing on the SY77 changes knobs in the layout but not the other way around. Still looking haha... This is going to be so useful when I get it to work, thanks!

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So, I tried using MusicIO on my Mac similar to your setup and routing the ipad through Ableton Live back out into the SY77. All works great this way. That's useful. I w sh I could figure out why a direct connection is not working. There must be a sysex filter happening somewhere between the two different interfaces I have tried.

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Glad you got it to work. I have no experience with the camera connection kit, so no idea why that didn't work. By the way I just realized (why didn't I before?) that the new MusicIO allows to route MIDI "from" and "to", so no DAW would be needed, if you just want the signal straight to one synth (=MIDI Interface output).

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Wow, glad you got this sorted. Awesome, thanks ibo-kai for the help as always!

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Well, I am using a workaround through my Mac. I am still not able to edit the synth by plugging directly from my ipad into the synth. I have tried a Line 6 midi mobilizer through midi bridge with all sysex enabled and I tried using the midi interface of an Arturia Keylab 49 over the apple camera connection kit. The SY can send sysex through either of these to the ipad and knobs change in MD, but no data is read by the SY77 when sent from MD :-/ Weird right?

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Very. So... what role does the MIDI Bridge serve? Can't you send to the Line 6 directly?

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I have tried two direct "from ipad to the synth" options. One is the Line 6 MIDI Mobilizer version 1 which only works using MIDI Bridge with iOS8. The SY77 can send sysex and move the virtual knobs in the MD layout perfectly. However, using the MD layout does nothing for controlling the SY77. It's weird because testing the info sent from the MD layout through the LIne 6 device intoto my Mac sends sysex strings that look right and the same as option 3 below I think :-/

The second option was using the ipad camera connection kit plugged into my Arturia Keylab 49 as the MIDI interface. From the MIDI in/out of the Arturia, I plug cables into the SY77. The same is true here. Sysex from the synth controls the layout knobs fine but not the other way around.

If I use the MIDI IO app into the Mac first and then my synth, all works great with no changes to the layout or synth settings. Funky!